August 4, 2011
The beginning of the minutes are taken from notes due to difficulty with the cassette tape.
The Ellettsville, Indiana Plan Commission met in
regular session on Thursday, August 4, 2011, in the Fire Department Training
and Conference Room located at
Roll Call:†† Members present were: †Phillip Smith, President; Don Calvert; Phillip
Rogers, Dan Swafford, Ron Wayt and Sandra Hash, Secretary.† Clayton Sullivan was absent.†
Approval of the Minutes Ė June 2, 2011
Phillip Smith entertained a motion for approval of the June 2, 2011 minutes.† Dan Swafford so moved. †Ron Wayt seconded.† Roll Call Vote:† Phillip Smith Ė yes; Don Calvert Ė yes; Phillip Rogers Ė yes; Dan Swafford Ė yes; Ron Wayt Ė yes; and Sandra Hash - yes.† Motion carried 5-0.
Preliminary Plat and Final Plat Approval
for Mitchell Subdivision (property to be split into 2 tracts, no development);
Connie Griffin, Director of Planning Ė The project address is
The petitioners: Steve and Larry Mitchell and Sue Ann Robinson are not changing the current zoning of agriculture; this subdivision request is the result of estate planning. Surveyor, Phillip Tapp stated, ďWe are not here to develop the property. If any development were to take place it would need to come back before the plan commission.Ē
Phillip Smith entertained a motion to approve the Preliminary Plat and Final
Plat Approval for Mitchell Subdivision (property to be split into two tracts,
Phillip Smith entertained a motion for waiver of the street trees and sidewalks.† Dan Swafford so moved.† Don Calvert seconded.† Roll Call Vote:† Phillip Smith Ė yes; Don Calvert Ė yes; Phillip Rogers Ė yes; Dan Swafford Ė yes; Ron Wayt Ė yes; and Sandra Hash - yes.† Motion carried 6-0.
Landscape Ordinance Discussion Ė
Connie Griffin, Director of Planning Ė Introduced Robert Lowers of
Robert Lowers, 1119 Main Street, Ellettsville, read a story about ďA Man and His YardĒ a parable between having freedom to maintain your yard as you choose to not being able to get your favorite food at your favorite restaurant.† He spoke on the landscape ordinance, more specifically, rain gardens and natural habitat areas. Lowers provided statistics concerning modern lawns and reasons why choosing not to mow is becoming more palatable to homeowners. Some of Lowers arguments for natural habitats include: the average cost of maintaining a true grass yard for 10 years is $50,000; what makes a plant a weed is only a matter of opinion; a yard is a natural habitat, a large part of an eco-region; we need to get to know our watersheds; the best pesticides are insects; and Johnson Grass is considered an invasive species which most yards consist of because it controls erosion.† This grass must tassel for it to control erosion and it tassels at about 9 inches which the current Ellettsville ordinance forbids.† During Lowerís presentation, plan commission members were shown pictures of his current yards/natural habitats.
Ron Wayt asked Mr. Lowers what was in the 55 gallons drums stored on his property.† Mr Lowers replied he used the drums for recycling glass and plastic.† When they are full he takes them to the recycling center.
Connie Griffin, Director of Planning thanked him for his remarks and explained this would need some further discussion and consideration.
Planned Unit Development Petition Ė Roger and Patricia New & Chad Stephens, PUD with all Commercial 3 uses and the following uses:† existing residential and truck and trailer parking on the parcel owned by Roger and Patricia new; warehousing and distribution; mini warehouses; heavy equipment sales and services; truck sales and service; truck and transportation companies; recycling and salvage operations; building trade shops.
Company Name†††††††††††††††††††††††† Tax ID††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Property†††††††††††††††††††††† Acres
Burch Enterprises, Inc.††††††† 0090029001††††††††††† 53-04-10-200-63.000-013†††††††††† 3.09
Roger and Patricia New†††††† 0090029002††††††††††† 53-04-10-200-209.000-013†††††††† 4.21
Pip Jay Properties††††††††††††††† 0090969000††††††††††† 53-04-10-200-031.000-013†††††††† 2.42
Connie Griffin, Director of Planning - Pip Jay Properties, LLC, Burch Enterprises, Inc., Roger New and Patricia New Planned Urban Development (ďPUDĒ) Creation Petition- #7122011, (Michael Carmin's file number:† 21457-2)
PUD Application materials were turned in on July 12, 2011 and July 20th.† Fees paid for PUD and development plans- $554.00, check number 2682, receipt number: 10623
In accordance with Town Code Chapter 152, PUDs are a four step process:
∑ Step 1.† Pre-design Conference.
∑ Step 2. Outline Plan Approval.
∑ Step 3.† Planned Unit Development district ordinance approval.
∑ Step 4.† Development plan approval
The petitioner has met with the Planning Department and three Plan Commission members for the pre-design conference, and they have submitted their outline plan.† Therefore it is the Plan Commissioner's responsibility, as an Advisory Board to the Town Council, to review the outline plan, hear the petitioner's case, and the Planning Department's Findings of Fact.
After their review they will send a recommendation to the Town Council as: favorable, not favorable or no recommendation.† If the petitioner is granted the PUD by council, the zoning map will be revised by ordinance, and then the petitioner would then come back to the Plan Commissioners with their development plan, which at that time the petitioner would introduce their hydrology studies.† To develop a better understanding of PUDs I would like to review from the Indiana American Planning Association some PUD basics.
∑ Allow flexibility in the zoning process to encourage innovative land use and development.
∑ May include varied and compatible land uses.
∑ A PUD involves both a plan with development standards and a zone map amendment or (rezoning).
∑ PUD's encourage:† a mix of land uses, generally with at least one non-residential land use.
∑ The clustering of residential providing public and common open space.
∑ Quality site planning and design.
∑ Implementation of the community comprehensive plan or vision.
∑ Aesthetically pleasing environments through architecture and landscape improvements.
∑ Preservation of natural areas.
1.† The land designated in the PUD request must be under single ownership or have written permission from the land owners within the proposed PUD area.
2.† The PUD plan must show the different land uses and provide development standards that will regulate those land uses.† PUDs should comply with or surpass the development standards established for zoning districts with similar uses in the community.
Ellettsville does not have Industrial 2 Zoning, which is required for a Salvage Yard Land Use.
The majority of the proposed PUD properties are located within the identified Special Flood Hazard Area.
Floodplain:† Any land area susceptible to being inundated by flood waters from any source.
∑ A "Regulatory Floodway" means the channel of a river or other watercourse and the adjacent land areas that must be reserved in order to discharge the base flood without cumulatively increasing the water surface elevation more than a designated height. Communities must regulate development in these floodways to ensure that there are no increases in upstream flood elevations. For streams and other watercourses where FEMA has provided Base Flood Elevations (BFEs), but no floodway has been designated, the community must review floodplain development on a case-by-case basis to ensure that increases in water surface elevations do not occur, or identify the need to adopt a floodway if adequate information is available.
∑ Flood hazard areas identified on the Flood Insurance Rate Map are identified as a Special Flood Hazard Area (SFHA). SFHA are defined as the area that will be inundated by the flood event having a 1-percent chance of being equaled or exceeded in any given year. The 1-percent annual chance flood is also referred to as the base flood or 100-year flood. SFHAs are labeled as Zone A, Zone AO, Zone AH, Zones A1-A30, Zone AE, Zone A99, Zone AR, Zone AR/AE, Zone AR/AO, Zone AR/A1-A30, Zone AR/A, Zone V, Zone VE, and Zones V1-V30.
∑ Moderate flood hazard areas, labeled Zone B or Zone X (shaded) are also shown on the FIRM, and are the areas between the limits of the base flood and the 0.2-percent-annual-chance (or 500-year) flood. The areas of minimal flood hazard, which are the areas outside the SFHA and higher than the elevation of the 0.2-percent-annual-chance flood, are labeled Zone C or Zone X (unshaded).
∑ Prohibited land use in a C-3 zoning classification- per Ellettsville Town Code 1966 through current Town Code zoning (Code requires Industrial 2 with BZA special Exception 152.085).
∑ 2010 New businesses added:† Salvage business, & Recycle yard.
∑ Filled in floodplain- No grading permit issued by the Town of Ellettsville Site Improvement Permit 152.104 (B) (1) or DNR permit Construction in a Floodway under IC 14-28-1, the Flood Control Act, requires that any person proposing to construct a structure, place fill, or excavate material within the floodway of any river or stream must obtain the written approval of the Department of Natural Resources prior to initiating the activity.
∑ State of
∑ Ellettsville Town Code- Drainage site plan: 152.145, Code stipulations under 152.296(i)(j)
∑ Petition Plan Commission for a Planned Unit Development for existing uses.
∑ Prepare plan(s) for development of property per Ellettsville Municipal Code 152.125.
∑ Submit grading plan to DNR for construction in a floodway permit- after the fact.
Plan Commission Rezoning Criteria and Comprehensive Plan Review and Thoroughfare Plan Review
In accordance with Indiana Code Sections 36-7-4-603, in considering a proposal for rezoning, the plan commission must pay reasonable regard to the following:
∑ Criteria 1:† The Comprehensive Plan- See questions below.
∑ Criteria 2:† Current conditions and the character of the current structures and uses in each district:† We are building a trail and working on revitalizing the downtown area- a salvage yard is not a compatible use with this goal.
∑ Criteria 3:† The most desirable use for which the land in each district is adapted- A salvage yard should be located with other heavy industry, with buffering.† This location, for a salvage yard, is too close to the downtown area and residential properties.
∑ Criteria 4:† The conservation of property values throughout the jurisdiction.
∑ Criteria 5:† Responsible development and growth- The salvage business never contacted the Plan Commissioners or Town Council or Planning ††† Dept. with expansion and development- Violated Indiana Code, Town Code, and DNR/Secretary of State permit requirements.
Ellettsville Plan Commission - Comprehensive Plan Review
1.† The proposed rezoning (is) (is not) consistent with the land use policies contained in the Comprehensive Plan because:
∑ Industrial areas are to be located west of Ellettsville for light industry.(Page 22- Industry)
∑ Code shall prohibit heavy industries that would likely create a known health or explosive hazard for nearby residents. (Page 22- Industry)
∑ Encourage pedestrian style commercial development
along and between the one-way pair of S.R. 46 with special attention to
∑ Support the Heritage Trail using old rail beds as a linear pedestrian pathway.† Salvage yard not a good adjacent land use for a trail. (Page 23- Transportation and Traffic Plan)
∑ Improve the environmental quality of Jack's Defeat Creek.† One reason why code prohibits salvage yards next to floodways. (Page 24- Environmental Issues and Trees)
∑ Seek guidance from similar communities concerning
codes- (Page 31- first paragraph)
Laporte, Indiana - Restricts salvage yards from being located within 1,000 feet of residential properties, they also require a minimum lot area of 5 acres, fire proof fencing six feet in height, 15 feet in depth buffer zone.
City of Bloomington, Indiana - The proposed use must be consistent with growth plans, will not create a nuisance by reason of noise, smoke, odors, vibrations, Will not have an undue adverse impact upon adjacent property, the character of the area, or the public health, safety and general welfare, the proposed use will not result in the excessive destruction, loss or damage of any natural, scenic or historic feature of significant importance, the proposed use and development complies with any additional standards imposed upon that particular use by the chapter.
South Bend, Indiana - No license shall be issued to any proposed scrap or junkyard, recycling operation or transfer station for a location within 1,000 feet of any lot being lawfully used, entirely or in part, as a single family or two family or multifamily dwelling or any of the following zoning use districts as defined by the zoning chapter of this code, covers single and multi family, central business district, community business district, mixed use districts . . .
Minimum lot area 5 acres
For complete code information request information from Planning Dept
2.† Conditions have changed in the area since the original zoning was established because:
Conditions have changed in the area; additional uses have been added to the site, which has strayed away from original intent of the code.† More residential development has transpired on McNeely (Stoneview Condos-PUD R-3, more residential).
3.† Community facilities are not available to support the proposed development because:
The area is serviced with Town water and waste water
services, and McNeely is a
4.† The proposed rezoning will not establish a desirable precedent in the area because:
The comprehensive plan states light industry zoning should be developed west of Ellettsville (pages 22, 31 & 36).† Zoning shall prohibit heavy industries that would likely create a known health or explosive hazard. (page 31)† Restrict areas within the 100-year flood plain hazard area to parkland use. (page 31) It will be mandatory to control pollution from entering streams by stopping unclean discharges of storm water at or near their source. (page 32) Soil erosion control measures should be carefully planned, implemented and monitored. (page 32).
5.† The proposed rezoning not compatible with surrounding land uses because:
Land Use Recommendations for Ellettsville- 3 Considerations for good land use- (page 26).
Planning, Compatibility, Value and Image
"Ellettsville should measure each and every one of the land use recommendations on the basis of these three considerations."
Does each and every lot in town or parcel of land near Town have utilization compatible with its neighbor? †Heavy Industrial uses are not compatible with residential and commercial development or revitalization of the downtown area.†
Is each land use the highest and best land use possible given the present market economics?†
In what way can Ellettsville land parcels attract additional investment?† Locate like uses together.
What needs to be done to upgrade the value of surrounding property?
Finally, what kind of image does the visual scene portray?† Does the built environment give a good first impression?
Thoroughfare Plan Review
Matthews and McNeely are both classified as Minor Collectors:
Chapter 6 System Definition- INDOT 2030 Long Range
Transportation Plan- Jurisdictional responsibility usually follows functional
(A) The light industrial district designates areas for manufacturing, processing and assembly operations that produce very little or no smoke, dust noise, or other environmentally objectionable byproducts. Warehousing and distribution are acceptable uses in the I-1 district. Due to potential heavy truck traffic, location along a well-constructed industrial or collector street with access to an arterial street, or along an arterial street, is important. Residential should be prohibited, and all but light commercial uses should be discouraged.† (Ord. 03-05, 824-05, passed 5-27-2003)
(B) The heavy industrial district provides areas for manufacturing, processing and assembly operations that require access to heavily-built truck routes or rail services. Storage and warehousing are incidental uses in the I-2 district. Location along an industrial street with access to a principal arterial is important. Residential should be prohibited, and most non-industrial uses are discouraged.† (Ord. 03-05, 824-10, passed 5-27-2003)
Mike Carmin Ė Explained
the map of the rezone petition area.†
They have also applied for an after the fact permit for the fill placed
on both the recycling center and the vacant lot on the east side of the creek.†† †There are no planned additions to the PUD
in the way of structures.† It is
currently zoned C3.† He talked to Roger
New.† Mr. New says that in 1983 he came
before the Town Council and they assured him that he could do what he needed to
do to run his business in a C3 zone.† Mr.
Carmin believes there is a misunderstanding about what his clientís ďsalvageĒ
conjures up ďrows and rows of beat up rusted hunksĒ and that is not the case
with his client.† This is not a
junkyard.† He wants a PUD to legitimize
what his client is doing with the property.†
The Indiana Secretary of Stateís office has issued a license for salvage
operations.† He has obtained the
hydrology report only recently from MS Consultants.† Also, he has obtained letters from neighbors
who have no objections to how
Ron Wayt Ė Asked Mr. Carmin what evidence he had that the Town
council approved anything other than C3 use.†
They have gone through the minutes/records and can find little or
nothing on this issue.† Mr. Carmin
commented well, if they want to call Roger New a liar.† Note taking at meetings and the technology
for taking notes has improved greatly over 30 years.† Mr. Carmin confirmed his client is currently
violating Town code and the whole point of the PUD is to address that
issue.† Mr. Wayt asked about the laches
issue.† Mr. Carmin responded that a
municipality can always argue laches.†
His point is that since
few members of the Plan Commission accompanied Connie Griffin on an inspection
The minutes from this point forward are verbatim from the cassette tape.
Sandra Hash - Asked Mr. Stephens if he shovels the lime and disposes of it properly.† Mr. Stephens said thatís correct.† They bag it up and put it in a Hoosier Roll Off container thatís at the north end of the property and Hoosier Disposal is an authorized handler of contaminated materials.
Dan Swafford Ė Asked Mr. Stephens to explain tire disposal.† Mr. Stephens stated every tire is on a
rim.† So, there is not water in the
tires.† If the tires are off the rims
they are inside a container that Connie Griffin didnít take a picture of.† Ms. Griffin stated she did have a
picture.† Mr. Stephens continued stating
if theyíre off the rim they are inside of a white van.† Those rims coming off the tires Ė the tires
will still have rims on them also because the tire changer is under a shed
(referring to a photograph).† Those tires
with rims on them according to IDEM thatís okay.† Tires are a big nuisance because they are an
expense.† They cut them off in threes and
Hoosier Disposal will also take the tires.†
If they are off the rim, they go into a box van so they donít get any
water in them. †With cars coming in,
tires pile up real quick.†† Theyíre
looking for a way to simplify that down to maybe a set of shears and just cut
them off instead of using a saw.† Mr.
Swafford, referring to a picture of a spill, asked what happens when they get a
spill like that.† Is it just left or do
they try to clean it up?† Mr. Stephens
asked if itís oil, water or transmission fluid.†
Mr. Swafford stated he smelled it and it smelled like oil to him.† Mr. Stephens continued, if a spill like that
happens, yes, those spills like that, those guys will come along with a bobcat
or shovel and pick it up.† Sandra Hash
asked on the piece of metal (referring to a photograph), there was a little red
pooling liquid in that blue piece of metal.†
They didnít know what the red liquid was.† Mr. Swafford asked Mr. Stephens if that would
be transmission fluid.† Phil Rogers
commented thereís that much transmission fluid in front of every convenience
Dan Swafford Ė Guessed the question right here is how they plan on addressing this (referring to a photograph) because when it rains itís obviously going in to the creek area here. †How would they address that area or has anyone ever looked at it?† Mr. Stephens stated nothing is ever kept to that edge.† Mr. Swafford asked (referring to a photograph) if thatís where he was talking about where the water was flowing over.† Mr. Stephens said he will back up and say that IDEM has been down there twice in pretty recent times and they walked up and down the same areas that heís just talking about on that edge.† As he can see, thereís nothing on that edge.† Even that edge is the highest point in all the runs, to the center and back to the pond.† No car destroying, no nothing takes place over there.† Actually, what they do at that edge is theyíll lay out long iron and they will cut it down.† Mr. Swafford (referring to a photograph), stated an area did run down into the creek and looked like someone, at one time, was crossing the creek or something.† Itís hard to see with the picture.† This is one of his concerns.† He asked if there isnít going to be any kind of wall that stops that if it would seep out into the creek or anything.† Mr. Stephens stated there are no walls.† Mr. Swafford asked if they didnít suggest that. Mr. Stephens replied IDEM didnít have a problem with it and there were no suggestions.† Sandra Hash asked Mr. Swafford to go back to a picture and one thing they wanted to show was, they had a gentleman stand down there at what seemed to be closest to the natural lay of the land to show thereís has been about four feet, at least, of fill put in there to raise that property up.† Mr. Stephens stated, just like Mr. Carmin said, thereís no denying there but the DNR is doing the hydraulic testing on it now.† As far as IDEM, they are the ones that said after the fact the permit will be approved.† Don Calvert asked where there was four feet of fill.† Dan Swafford referred to a photograph which showed the natural slope of the land.† It looks like it was raised up four feet.†
Connie Griffin Ė Asked Mike Carmin if he had submitted something to the DNR.† Mr. Carmin provided a copy of MS Consultants Hydraulic report.† This hydraulic report has been prepared following the requirements of the DNR and the Federal Emergency Management Agency for use by the applicant, which would be Chad, in obtaining an after the fact permit for the work performed to date as well as to obtain approvals for additional fill placement yet to be performed.† Ms. Griffin asked if it was to the DNR.† Mr. Carmin answered yes.† Darla Brown asked if the petition was on file. Mr. Carmin said that was right and asked if she was referring to the after the fact permit.† Ms. Brown answered yes.† Mr. Carmin said that will now be filed because they wouldnít accept it until the report came in.† Now they have the after the fact permit, the application requires the study of the impact. This will now be the next step.† Ms. Griffin asked under what name the permit will be submitted.† Mr. Carmin stated it should be under Pip Jay Properties, yes.† Ms. Griffin said because of todayís date, they have not submitted anything.† Mr. Carmin stated John, canít think of his last name, from DNR, talked to him about a week ago and he was asking where they were on this because he was, frankly, waiting to - because they have enforcement advance spending this and the anticipated release date of MS Consultants.† He said he talked to Sean Arden and got a directive from him if needed to but they will be submitting the full application now.† Sandra Hash asked who they got the report from that said they were within a quarter inch.† Mr. Carmin said this report is from MS Consultants.† Thatís the engineering firm on this one.† Ms. Hash asked Mr. Carmin to explain that statement just a little bit.† She meant, if someone puts in several feet of fill on both sides of the creek how does that come down to only a quarter inch of impact.† Mr. Carmin stated the hydraulic analysis for the project indicates a post project rise that means after the result of the fill activity.† In base flood elevation with Jackís Defeat Creek, about 0.04 feet, four-hundredths of a foot.† When they do that, they are not measuring just at that site. Theyíre looking at the flood basin and the length of Jackís Defeat Creek to see what the impact is.† Not just at a particular location.† They had to go back to part of the work Ė the flood plain modeling to be done first.† Why it takes longer to do this Ė they had to go back and establish what would have been the elevations before the fill activity, measure the amount of fill activity put in there and then do the analysis and study after that to see what the impact was and to see what the change was on the flood base for Jackís Defeat Creek.† It takes awhile and thatís why it has been a little slow getting to this point.† Ms. Hash asked if a ľ inch in their opinion has no effect.† Mr. Carmin stated itís basically four-hundredths of a foot so between ľ and Ĺ inch, about .4 inches.† Sheís right.† The IDEM tolerance level for an after the fact permit is that it canít be more than fourteen-hundredths of a foot.† So, this is less than one-third of that.† For the DNR, they canít have over fourteen-hundredths of a foot or more and this is four-hundredths of a foot so it is well within their guidelines.† Karla Frownfelter, Journal reporter, asked if they paid $7.50, did they get the license.† Mr. Carmin stated there is a little bit more to it.† Chad Stephens said someone has to sign off on it and the Secretary of State to a President can sign off on it.† And, then he gets a form and itís actually out in his van Ė then they get a form and it says they have signed the permit and you need to send us back $7.50 in a cashierís check or money order and we did that and they sent us the license.† He knows that doesnít look like a very good copy but he actually has the letter in the van.† Sandra Hash asked what the criteria on the license were.† Mr. Stephens asked what she meant.† Ms. Hash further asked on the application what questions did they ask him.† Mr. Stephens stated he thinks the biggest thing that they would ask, that pertained to this, is what is going to go on there.† They had four things:† they had salvage rebuilding, hulk crushing, used auto parts and thereís one other one on that license he canít remember.†
He applied for three of them out of the four.† He thinks thatís the biggest thing theyíre asking for.† The Plan Commission members have all seen the permit at one time.† Ms. Hash asked if he meant the permit application.† Mr. Stephens said he had it ďup thereĒ.† In the middle it says, salvage recycler, hulk crusher and used parts dealer.† The last one was a salvage rebuilder which he is not.† Phillip Smith asked if there were any other questions for Mr. Carmin.†
Phillip Smith Ė Adjourned the meeting for a 10 minute break.†
Phillip Smith Ė Called the meeting back to order at 7:47.
Don Calvert Ė Just based on paperwork, he has a letter from the
Secretary of State, April 5th. †He told Chad Stephens he appreciated his
demeanor, he had done a fine job.† Mr.
Stephens said he had a good teacher.† Mr.
Calvert said yes, Mr. Taylor. †Mr.
The business is engaged in business activities and must be properly licensed to carry out such activities.† In bold and underlined, ďyouíre required to cease and desist any and all business activity in the operation of a salvage facility without a salvage license.Ē† If you donít then youíre going to face all kinds of monetary fines and this sort of thing.† Then they gave Chad Stephens an email, a phone number to contact somebody at the state level.† Then he has a letter dated the 23rd from the DNR to Chad Stephens.† In bold, ďthere is to be no further construction, excavation or filling within the floodway without approval from the DNR.† In order to resolve legal public safety the project site must be restored to its original condition.† Contact the DNR Division of Water Compliance and Enforcement Section within 30 days.Ē† This was dated May 23rd.†
to restore the project site to its original may result in a notice of violation.† He has a letter dated today.† He asked if Mr. Stephens had a license issued
or an application yesterday.† Mr. Carmin
said this is the license.† Mr. Calvert
reiterated he said an application or issued.†
Mr. Carmin said license issued.†
Mr. Calvert stated according to the DNR they can find no record of
They do not have it on file yet because they wouldnít accept it until they got the report done that just came in, finally, today.† So, they will be filing the after the fact permit now.† Thatís what theyíre waiting for.† Connie Griffin asked if the Town were to actually find this to be an unfavorable recommendation is there a possibility that the license would be revoked based upon their zoning.† Mr. Stephens said no.† Mr. Carmin said actually the zoning is not a requirement for the license.† Thatís why he called Ashley Humphries who authored the letter and asked her what does zoning have to do with her level.† He told Ms. Humphries it is a local issue as opposed to the state issued license.† Her answer was simple.† She stated it really doesnít, they just like to know.† They put it on their application form and they like to support local units if they can.† Generally, they wouldnít issue a license if theyíre not zoned for it.† Theyíll wait to see if they get the zoning worked out and heís to let her know.† He didnít know they decided to issue the license anyway.† Ms. Griffin asked why it was so long to bring this forward to the Plan Commission.† Mr. Carmin responded to do the hydraulic report,
has taken about 45 days, they first had to do the flood plain modeling.† Itís a slow operation.† Itís taken awhile and
Dan Swafford Ė Itís clear they have to submit within 24 hours any thing that is going to be used at the Plan Commission level for this meeting.† They have 24 hours to submit any kind of paperwork.† But, seeing the impact of this paperwork, he really feels they are going to have to have some extra time to look over all of it.† Mr. Carmin said he fully expected that.† When they talked at the pre-design, pre-petition meeting they knew that report was not going to come in as quickly as everybody wanted it.† They had some discussion there, do they go ahead and go on the agenda with the very distinct possibility or probability that it could turn into a two meeting process.† Because they would not have received this timely to get to the Plan Commission and that it would need more time as, frankly, do they.† He fully understands it is very likely that this could be tabled at some point to appear at the next meeting when theyíve had more time to digest it and Rick would have had more time to digest it and make any recommendation.† Mr. Swafford stated he doesnít really want to table it right now because he wants to hear what the public has to say.† Phillip Smith asked when he received the report.† Mr. Carmin said he received it and printed it at the office today at about 2:30 p.m.
Ron Wayt Ė Regardless what the reports say, this property is
still in violation of Town code.† There
are five different items that theyíre in violation of.† But, itís prohibited land use in a C-3 zoning
classification.† A new business was added
in 2010. There was no attempt to even notify the Town of this coming in to even
give the public a chance to voice their opinions.† There have been some after that.† No grading, nothing like that.† The residential part being 1,000 feet away Ė
theyíre less than being 1,000 feet away from downtown right at the center of
down town.† Thatís a violation of Town
code.† The violation of the code is that
they also cannot be within a flood way with this business.† Regardless of what the report says, those are
in the Town code.† They would have to
change the Town code to allow them to operate that business or a Board of
Zoning Appeals.† Ms. Griffin stated they
could not go to the Board of Zoning Appeals because they are not zoned
Industrial 2 to begin with.† The Board of
Zoning Appeals can only hear that to grant a special exception if they are
already zoned an Industrial 2.† A PUD is
the only option.† It was either to cease
and desist or to apply for a Planned Unit Development.† Those are their two options.† Mr. Carmin noted the PUD addresses all of the
violations being referred to.† Mr. Wayt
asked before they can change a PUD do they have to have all of the violations
corrected.† Darla Brown stated the issue
for the Plan Commission to resolve is whether or not this PUD promotes the
general welfare of the Town.† The point
of a PUD is to allow flexibility in zoning but the broad issue for the Plan
Commission to consider is does it promote the general welfare of the Town.† One of the things for the Plan Commission to
consider is it responsible development growth.†
The past violations that werenít corrected come under that.† Mr. Carmin stated he questioned her statement
and can fully answer.† Are there zoning
violations right now?† Yes.† If the PUD would get approved by the Town
Council that cures the zoning violations and doesnít undo that in the past
there have been zoning violations and whether the Town would chose to do
anything about that is actually a different question.† The act of rezoning to the PUD, with an
approved development plan would cure all of those violations.† Mr. Wayt stated there are other violations
such as tall grass, thatís another one; itís over 9 inches tall.† There are horses in a residential property.
Thatís another one.† They cannot have the
horses on the property even if it is changed to PUD.† Thatís something that would have to be
removed.† Thatís in violation now and
wasnít even listed on the violations regardless of whether it is a PUD or not.† Mr. Carmin stated he must be talking about Roger
and Patriciaís property.† Mr. Wayt stated
which is part of this.† Mr. Carmin
doesnít have any idea of how long they have horses there and doesnít know
anything about their horses.† Ms. Griffin
asked if the News also seek a salvage license since they repeatedly claim to be
a salvage yard. Mr. Carmin replied no.†
Ms. Griffin stated that would also be considered in violation.† Mr. Carmin asked if this is a game of
gottcha.† What is going on here
folks?† He doesnít understand this and
theyíre commenting on
Phillip Smith Ė The way he understands right now, he needs to get a
motion one way or the other favorable or not favorable.† Connie
Joey and Jackie Gardner,
Joey Gardner - Had a quick question on going back to someone
mentioning how many cars in the lot are leaking fluid and how many cars are
here leaking fluid or whatever.† He
thinks everyone probably attempts to keep their car from leaking fluid because
of the obvious price of oil, transmission fluid, antifreeze or whatever.† Does anyone in there have a car theyíre
considering scraping thatís setting out there leaking oil in the parking lot
right now?† So, thatís been established.† His second question would be how do they seal
these containers?† The question is for
Dana Kerr, Attorney Ė He is attending the meeting in two capacities.† He has a client who wanted to remain
anonymous.† However, he is also attending
on his own behalf as having an office just across
Jennifer Harper, Office Manager for
Phillip Smith Ė Asked Chad Stephens if heís moving the trucking company so he can expand the salvage, what happens if he needs to expand again.† Mr. Stephens said thatís a good question.† Mr. Smith said because basically heís going to double the size of his operation with the trucking company.† Mr. Stephens said he has something to say but he doesnít want to say it at the meeting because he doesnít want to jeopardize the Plan Commissionís feelings on this.† The flow that he has now in order to increase it, BIM would have to go out of business, JB Salvage would have to go out of business, he means something major would have to happen.† Everybody has their own amount of flow.† His has pretty much stabilized.† Moving the truck shop is because itís overgrown.† It has outgrown those four bays and he needs more room.† He needs more room for mechanics and more room for tool boxes.† Heís trying to position himself for I-69 because itís going to be a major thoroughfare for trucks and increased traffic.† So, heís trying to position himself for that and thatís not the place.† Like he said, he grew up here so he wants jobs here.† He doesnít know where money comes from to do some of these improvements but he would say theyíre probably from taxes.† He will still pay taxes there, have jobs there and people spending money there.† The roll off business will stay part of this in that building.† It will give a place to park trucks inside and it will have a place to work on the equipment.† Like the loader and the trucks if they have maintenance issues they can use that garage.† So to say itís going to expand from 70 customers a day to 140 a day, he doesnít know if that will happen.† Mr. Smith hasnít personally been down there, but the others have.† It is cramped back there and what theyíre working on. Basically, moving up into the north side, it would just be able to make some breathing room.† Theyíve addressed some concerns of working close to their customers with machinery and the backup alarms to keep them identified that something is coming through there.† It just needs to spread out a little bit.† The cars, the tin and anything that would lay on the ground stays up there in the back part, up out of the flood water.† Anything down in there would not be sustainable to flooding, like a tub of short steel down in the north part may move down in there.† A tub of old sheet may move down in there.† So, he doesnít ever foresee it overgrowing that unless something major would happen and he doesnít see any of his competitorsís going out of business any time soon.† He wants this here and heís going to fight for this to be here.† He does have other things happening for more growth but this will stay here if itís approved and they get it going.† Itíll stay here and basically be a feeder yard to another yard.† Thatís why he withdrew from expanding down closer to Temperance.† Thatís why he withdrew going closer to Mr. Criderís concern of going closer to Matthews because he believes just staying in that area where the building and the current center is now, the main recycle part of it, and he can do everything he wants to do right there.† Those tubs that they see on the other side that Mr. Wayt was talking about, heíll have the room over there.† Does it solve a concern of rain water, no it doesnít, but itíll keep it out of that east parcel which is also what Joey was talking about having those over there.† He definitely doesnít want his kids over there Ė he has a couple of girls and a boy himself Ė he doesnít want them over there playing in them and he definitely doesnít want them in something like Mr. Wayt seen if thereís some residual in there.† So, he doesnít want that.† So, those containers will go over there.† So, that piece of property is open for development and that is a whole other meeting, if and when, theyíre working for a grading permit for over there also with the DNR and with the Town.† He has an idea over there and to spell that idea out, he originally wanted to work with the Town in building a parking lot over there for the Rails to Trails but thatís yet to be seen.† If that donít happen it could become a place to maybe put in just a small commercial building for a plumber or electrician to rent that donít need a whole lot of highway frontage but thatís all down the road.† Mr. Wayt asked if it was correct that the expansion he was talking about was across the creek.† Mr. Stephens replied yes sir, it is.† Referring to a photograph, he pointed to the area.† Mr. Wayt stated if he isnít going to expand out towards Matthewís Drive why include Roger and Patriciaís property in the PUD.† Mr. Stephens responded he said earlier that when this first was talked about with MS Consultants, they were hurrying and trying to do everything they could to get in front of the Town.† But, they had to work with the surveyors and the process.† He drew the line and said to Mr. Carmin and the surveyors, they could possibly use the field for an overflow and thatís his ignorance of not knowing hydraulics.† He was simply thinking, where Mr. Baugh was standing in that one picture, he was thinking they could pipe underneath that field over to a basically just a holding pond and it would offset that water for the field that he spread out in the back.† Well, thatís not hydraulics.† Hydraulics is all about flow and he was just trying to offset the water.† So, when he drew that line in there, it was purely for a retainment pond if they needed to put one in.† Shawn Harden said for one that wouldnít work and two, he wouldnít need it because he is well within the DNR spec.† He and Mr. Carmin was actually saying itís quite possible they could withdraw that out of the PUD if it was an option.† Itís pretty clear on the east side of that blue line which is Jacks Defeat to that red line farthest to the east (referring to a photograph).† He doesnít want to expand any kind of recycling into that area.† He doesnít have enough room with his truck shop there and thatís why some of the tubs are over there.† He doesnít want his tubs over there either but he just donít have the room.† He would rather they set out making money.† So theyíll all be pulled over here.† He has no interest in the south part there that encompasses Roger and Patriciaís property and then the field.† He knows he can stay within that middle section that has the repair and recycling behind it.† He guesses heíll end with saying they know heíll do whatever Ė heíll fight for this and they can clearly see he has been.† They know itís something he wants and he doesnít want to hurt anything.† He doesnít want to hurt the environment.† Mr. Carmin said that in the PUD, he knows if it requires tubs that hold engines and transmissions to be sealed so be it.† The Town has a code enforcer now.† He met him down there the other day.† He told him he can come on his property any time he wants.† Heíll give him a key to the gate.† He wants to work with the Town.† Clearly, itís young but he wants to see Ellettsville grow and he wants to work with the Town on the trail. He wants to do everything he can to stay there, not hurt the environment and help Ellettsville.† He grew up here.† He wants to do whatever he can to help Ellettsville grow.† Now granted thatís 800 feet that Connie wrote in there but if they want a 15 feet tall fence, heíll put a 15 feet tall fence up.† If they want flowers on the fence, heíll put flowers on the fence.† Itís whatever the Town wants. Heís willing to work with the Town.†
Sandra Hash went on the site inspection yesterday and she even
asked about the huge amount of lime in the area.† It was so dusty.† All of the leaves around the area were
totally covered with the lime dust.†
There were considerable amounts of oil spots.† She could smell the oil in the air when they
walked through the area.† She too lives
fairly close, not as close as 1,000 feet, but she lives at top of the hill by
the water tower and she has been there for 33 years.† She hears the noise from her house.† When sheís inside and the windows are closed
she doesnít hear it.† But when she goes
out on her back deck she can definitely hear the thumping and the pounding.† Because sheís lived there so long and the
business has been on McNeely for a considerable amount of years she knows there
have definitely been floods, two major floods, since sheís lived there. It has been
awhile but a floodís a flood, she has witnessed it.† She appreciates what engineers say with their
hydraulic studies but when they put several feet of fill on both sides, not
just one side where the business is located, but the other side.† She drives that way home every night and she has
seen the tire tracks go in and the land just kept going up, up, up.† Thereís a lot of fill dirt on that side,
along the long thin strip on the east side of the creek.† When they were there yesterday, there were
dumpsters stored on both sides of the creek.†
The one that had the gunk in the bottom was also on the east side of the
creek.† Not only did he have the oil
spills or fluids Ė itís on both sides.†
She, personally, has witnessed water.†
She went to school with
Dan Swafford Ė His recommendation would have been to table this because of the hydraulic report and for the license being presented to the Plan Commission at the last moment. But, there is a motion on the floor and it has already been seconded.† He would like to amend the motion to state that the Plan Commission did not receive the hydraulic report and the license until the start of the meeting before it goes to the Council so they know that they didnít have all the information.† Darla Brown stated she thinks thatís something they can just discuss with Town Council.† Sheís not certain itís appropriate to amend a motion with that kind of language.† Itís extraneous to the motion.† Mr. Swafford asked if the motion can be tabled or do they need to vote on the first motion.† Ms. Brown replied there is a motion and second on the table right now.† Mr. Swafford stated so they have to vote on it.† Mr. Wayt stated the information that has now come in would be used by the Town Council.† Dan Swafford and Phillip Smith are on Town Council and they will know that information wasnít submitted.† The Council can say theyíre going to look it over at the next meeting and it could be tabled then.† Mr. Wayt asked Darla Brown if thatís correct.† Mr. Swafford stated what heís saying is heís wearing two hats as far as the Planning Commissioner.† This hydraulic report is very pertinent to his decision.† So, if heís got to make his decision it will be based without the hydraulic report and license.† He just wanted to make that point.†
Dana Kerr Ė For the PUD, it doesnít appear to him that the report or the fact they were able to go through the licensing would make no real difference on whether or not this is a compatible use for the property.† Just because they got a license and filled out a form and sent in their $7.50, to him isnít pertinent to whether or not this is an acceptable use for this close to downtown.† Whether the hydrological report is going to say whether that material can stay or go, however, that too doesnít affect whether it is a compatible use of the property in general.† Mr. Swafford said he guessed heís right.† It would be more than environmental on that but to him thatís still part of the whole process.† He thinks its pieces of the process.† This is what happens when there are too many attorneys in a room.† He was kidding Ė this was a joke.
Sandra Hash Ė Thinks this has all been very good information.† She appreciates the testimony from both sides.†
Phillip Smith Ė They have a motion and a second.† He asked if the Plan Commission has any more comments.† Phillip Rogers said they should try to get this done before the next Town Council meeting or theyíll be waiting on the Plan Commission.† Mr. Smith asked if the next Town Council meeting is Monday, August 8, 2011.† Ms. Hash replied yes, but it wonít be on Mondayís agenda because it already went out.† Mr. Swafford confirmed it will be on the agenda three weeks from now.† Mr. Smith reiterated they have a motion on the floor to send to the Town Council a non-favorable recommendation and a second.† Mr. Smith requested Ms. Hash take the roll call vote.
Phillip Smith entertained a motion either favorable, not favorable or no recommendation. Ron Wayt made a motion that they send this to the Town Council as unfavorable.† Sandra Hash seconded.† Roll Call Vote:† Phillip Smith Ė yes; Don Calvert Ė yes; Phillip Rogers Ė no; Dan Swafford Ė yes; Ron Wayt Ė yes; and Sandra Hash - yes.† Motion carried 5-1.
Dan Swafford made a motion to adjourn.† Don Calvert seconded.† Phillip Smith adjourned the meeting at 9:06 p.m.†