Ellettsville, Indiana Plan
Commission met in
regular session on Thursday, September 4, 2008 in the Fire Department Training and Conference Room
located at 5080
West State Road
46.† Sandra Hash called the meeting to
order at and lead the Pledge of
Roll Call:†† Members
present were:†Sandra Hash, President, Terry Baker, Vice
President, Willis Ziese, Dan Swafford, Don Calvert and Phil Smith, Frank Buczolich-absent.† Frank Nierzwicki, Director of Planning Services and Connie Griffin were present.
Approval of the Minutes
Sandra Hash- entertained amotion
to approve the minutes from August 7, 2008. Phillip Smith made a motion to approve the August 7, 2008 minutes, Terry Baker seconded the motion.† All in favor motion carried.
Request for rezoning at 4210 W. SR 46-
Matt Cascio Petitioner
Nierzwicki- This is
the former CedarBluffGardenCenter area, which has 4 lots zoned R-2, the petitioner is
requesting a zoning change to a C-3.†
This would be consistent with the rest of the property.†
Sandra Hash- Is there a reason for the change?
Matt Cascio- We are making an effort to sell the property.† Iím trying to pull the zoning together.† As we brought the properties a little piece
as a time, they all had old zoning and different zoning.† We would like it to be consistent
Sandra Hash- Do all four pieces have homes on them?
Matt Cascio- No.† The
property has old buildings and barns, and a sales and office building.†
Sandra Hash- In the back there are some duplexes?
Matt Cascio- In the Springs Valley Subdivision, way in the
back.† We brought the land to build more
green houses.† Iím getting Maury Erickson
with Title Plus is going to be moving the line along there so we can have this
Sandra Hash- So the residential will stay residential, that is
not in this request?
Matt Cascio- No answer.
Nierzwicki- Yes, it
Matt Cascio- I guess that is part of the whole thing, right
now.† If we sell the property, our intent
is to draw a line up there.
Dan Swafford- So, you are saying you want to leave that area
only four lots that are not zoned C-3 are the ones that are actually shown in
the map, and the† parcel numbers you
supplied the office are the ones we are talking about.†
Matt Cascio- Ok.
Sandra Hash- that includes all of your property, so where your
business was and all of these properties you have acquired will all be
commercial, this is what you are requesting?
Matt Cascio- Yes.
Sandra Hash- So the front of the property has the residential
Nierzwicki- A map
is shown and SR 46 with the houses distinguished.
Dan Swafford- I think the concerns at the last meeting, is that
the citizens didnít want a back exit into the commercial area, no trucks in the
Matt Cascio- I canít imagine that anyone would design to do this,
there is a concrete wall 10 feet high along that area and there are grade
area would require a 40 foot setback requirement.†
Matt Cascio- You give final site review.
Nierzwicki- We do
not have a site review on the table at this time.†
Dan Swafford- Are you willing to leave this area residential?
Matt Cascio- Yes.† This
area will not be part of the sale.† The
wall will be part of the rental property area.†
Additional Map Reviews
Matt Cascio-† The original
property had a house on it, with 5 acres, and it is on the west side of the CVS.† Then I bought another 2 acres
with a swamp on it, and then another parcel on the eastern side and a final
parcel with a house next to Circle S gas station and then I bought the land
with the duplexes.†
Nierzwicki- We are
getting confused Matt.† The parcels
youíve asked for are to be rezoned are these parcels, shown on screen.†
Sandra Hash- The show room area is commercial- so what else do
you want commercial.
Matt Cascio- Everything in the front, where the pond is and the CVS property line, the buildings and the barn. †Matt uses the pointer to explain the property
Sandra Hash- I was under the understanding that this area was
Matt Cascio- Really, the whole thing?
parcels you gave to us are four parcels.†
He shows the parcels on the map.†
Matt Cascio- When I looked this up I looked for all of the
parcels I have in there.†
Dan Swafford- Micah, can you go to the CountyGIS?
thought you wanted all of the parcels the same zoning.†
Matt Cascio- I do.† I
obviously made a mistake.† Itís not a
100% accurate on what I said.† Because,
you have to understand when I bought that parcel in the back with the houses on
it, the reason for buying this land was to obtain other land that he had as
part of that, so I could do my green house operations.† Iím trying to reestablish the line, so I can
keep that a multi-family and below that where the wall is, is to turn that area
into commercial.† So, there is actually
part of those parcels that we are talking about that I want to be part of the
property I want to sell to a developer.
Nierzwicki- I think
I understand.† I only have the parcels
from the county, and you gave us those four parcels.† Looking at the zoning those are the only four
parcels that were not zoned C-3, they were zoned R-2.
Matt Cascio- So you looked at the other parcels I owned as CedarBluffGarden?
and the parcels numbers came out to these four parcels that were not C-3.† I think you are ahead of yourself from the
standpoint of coming for a rezone.† What
you want to do is to carve out that parcel, to make sure you have what you want
in the right area.† That may create a
different parcel number and once that is done, then you can come back to here
to figure out the zoning on that.†
Matt Cascio- So I need to let Title Plus re-doÖÖÖ..
donít know at this point which parcel you want to have rezoned.†† We can continue this, and I suggest you try
to get that information together as soon as possible, and have it ready for the
next meeting.† We could address that,
because you may have one of these parcels you want to rezone.
Sandra Hash- I think we need to go back and look at his zoning
annexation ordinance.† When he annexed
that property in I thought all of his gardening area was C-3 and those
residential are R2 or R3.† I think it is
already properly zoned.
Smith- Heís got a
better chunk of residential than he wants.
Matt Cascio- I didnít buy for the rental houses, I had to buy the
whole thing, it comes down past the wall, and I would like to sell it, I donít
want to keep that land below the wall.† I
donít think a developer would be interested in any of this property. I need to
define the line where the wall is.†
Coppock- You may
need to transfer between adjacent property lines and pull that property into
the other ones.†
Matt Cascio- Obviously I didnít understand some of the lots.
you find that out, if it is the pleasure of the council to continue,† you can come back and then complete it.†
Matt Cascio- I have two concerns, make sure everything is
consistent, and partial off my duplexes and my rentals.† I donít want to give them up.† I want to make sure they are separate from any
Nierzwicki- If you
like you can request a continuance till the next meeting.
Matt Cascio- Let us do that, and I can always cancel if I donít
feel I need it.† I want to get this
Dan Swafford- You can get on the MonroeCountyGIS you can see your borders and zoning.
would like a continuance to the next meeting.
Smith- I make a
motion to continue this Request for rezoning at 4210 W. SR 46- Matt Cascio
Petitioner.† Terry Baker- Second.† Sandra Hash- All in favor say aye.† All in favor, Don Calvert abstained, motion
Sandra Hash- Next item preliminary plat
approval for a 78 lot subdivision in Centennial Park, Development Group Network
item was before you at the last meeting, and is before you tonight.† We have the GIS map that shows the area.† SR 46
and Centennial and Woodgate were identified.†
(32 Acre area).† Stubs, future
development and town limits and Lost Manís Lane were identified.† The connection point was brought up at the
Rick Coppock- Representing the petitioner.† The right of way in question at the last
meeting was discussed.† A recorded plat
was presented for discussion.† Some
documentation was discussed and information obtained by the County Planning
Director about the access point to the north.†
It has been considered a right of way by the CountyEngineer and itsí always been there.† A right of way is considered public
property.† This area has been undeveloped
for years.† When subdivisions are
constructed they put the stubs in at the time of development.† A part of these other stubs were constructed,
but this piece ends on a cul-de-sac.† †The CountyEngineer and the CountyPlanner, neither have concerns about this area, it has been
considered a public right of way.† The
recorded plat shows it is a right of way.†
copy of the Monroe County Plan
shows an ingress/egress in 1976 it was approved in the minutes.
development meets or exceeds the town code; we will have to get approval for
the Rule 5 erosion control permitting, and sanitary sewer approval, water and
notice of intent.† We have approval from
Richland/Eastern Sewer Corporation to construct into their system and we are
looking at a five to ten year build out.†
When the owners brought this into town as R-1 they were looking to
develop this area as a single family residential, which is what is before you
Dan Swafford- What would stop that from becoming a right of way?
nothing that I know of.†
planning staff recommends approval.
Smith- Is there
more than one access into Centennial?†
Coppock- There is
an access into Woodgate, and another development to the East of Centennial
Drive, so another access point would be there in the future.† We will provide 2 access points to the north
(34 acres that connects to Lost Manís Lane).†
Sandra Hash- Does anyone from the audience have any questions or
Dan Young- Iím the property owner adjacent to the cul-de-sac.† I have a concern about drainage within the
property.† I have drainage from the
Crider Property and from the potential new development.† From the proposed plat it doesnít look like
the drainage or the situation will improve.†
So, Iím glad to hear they will have to go through the erosion
approvals.† I have a concern that a lot
of water will start running into my backyard.†
Traffic looks like it will also be a concern.
Coppock- Weíll pick
up the drainage in the road and he pointed to another area that will run to a
detention pond. †He should see an
Nierzwicki- A grading
permit will be required, and in the grading permit the plan will show how the
water will drain; this data will be available to you for your input.†
Don Calvert- How much water are you going to run through SpringsValley?† One area gets
flooded out when a lot of rain occurs around Deer Park.†
detention requirements require us to detain 2, 5, 10, 25 and 100 year storms.† It should decrease and the water will go to
the pond.† Several drainage issues were
discussed and the map was reviewed.
and line of site issues were discussed, as well as possible sidewalks and
street lights put in.
Sandra Hash- Seeing no more questions or comments from the
public, is there a motion.
Smith- We grant a
preliminary plat approval for a 78 lot subdivision in Centennial Park,
Development Group Network Inc. Petitioner.†
Terry Baker- seconded the motion.†
Sandra Hash requested a roll call vote, motion carries.
Phillip Smith, yes
Don Calvert, abstain
Terry Baker, yes
Sandra Hash, yes
Dan Swafford, yes
Willis Ziese, yes
Frank Buczolich- absent
a Plan Commission work
session on September
Enforcement has had several issues over the past few years; it will be up to
the Plan Commission to have a work session to update Town code.† Iím concerned with the code for parking on
the lawn, definitions, inoperable vehicles, number of vehicles in a residential
area, signs, commercial lighting, fees, and special use variances.†
You can e-mail me your comments, and we could have
draft language out prior to the meeting for you to review.† I want to make sure that the questions and
concerns you have are addressed.† Frank
explained the process on code ordinance changes.
Sandra Hash- I would like more information on Planned Unit
Developments with more definitions and the code updated concerning commercial
are in agreement and can attend.
Staff Comments-Frank Nierzwicki
stepped down from the board.)
number of items have gone on recently.†
In your packet you will find information from September 2, 2008.† In that
document I stated on August 28 Rick Coppock and
I met with representatives from Bearacos to talk about the Town Council comments on August 25, 2008.† We discussed
the issues of the pit, and other issues and that Town Council wanted movement with work completed by September 10
or fines would begin.† I informed the
representative, in my opinion, he has two options.
We made sure there was a building permit for the pit,
there isnít a permit.†
One option is to come to Plan Commission to have a change in the preliminary plat, or the
second item would be to fill in the pit and do the other improvements as
He asked me the possibility of having the Plan Commission change the plat, and I said probably not real good,
he said he would go with the first item and try to fill it in.† I sent him a copy of the memo that went out
to you, so if you go to the e-mail from Jason Walls to me, he was thinking of
going with the first option, but he didnít think he could get it done by September 10,
2008.† He would try to do all of the other requested
items.† That was on September 3, on the 4th
Frank read a letter from Bearacos.† They are talking about completing the erosion
control work, the issue between lot 39 and 40, they want an extension to September 30,
2008.† I stated to Jason Walls, that Rick Coppock and I canít grant a date extension that only Town Council can approve.
Today, I was out there (Autumn Ridge) and dirt was
being placed in the pit and some grading was going on.†
There was talk that they were going to follow through
on the instructions given to Bearacos from Rick last night, so I donít know if
any instructions were given last night †to Bearacos.†
Rick is here tonight to talk about that.
Coppock- I talked
to them yesterday, and we did a walk through and went through the items I had
given Frank.† We talked about the
pit.† The original plans show that a
swell comes back down thru there, so anyway, theyíve got it about 2/3ís
full.† I didnít talk to anyone last
From the original plan theyíve moved these around a
little bit.† Thatís why these contour
lines donít match up with what the original plan was.† There was no building there in the original
Sandra Hash- What is this one that shows a building?
moved all of these buildings none of these match up, Bledsoe and Tapp have
changed the plat after approval.† I
remember Bernie Gearataus, called and asked, because they changed one
building to a single.
The big blank spot should have been a double.† It was changed to a single.† So when they changed that to a single they
wanted to pick up the unit that they lost.
Bernie called me, he said they werenít changing the density, can we add a
†I said you need
to talk to Jeff York at the time, since it was a PUD and he needed to go to the
Plan Commission that was the last I heard about it, until the pit
looked at the 2005 version of Google, and the pit was there in 2005.
Smith- The house
not finished by the pit, does it have a building permit?
Rick Coppock- Iím sure they do.
Sandy Hash- It should be displayed.
Smith- Iíve been through there
several times and Iíve never seen one.†
Coppock- Before you
start to get any inspections, even for temporary electrical you have to have a
permit.† I would think they have a
permit, since they have to have a permit for footers.
mentioned to Jason Walls in both in an e-mail and in the memo to you, it has to
be, the site, has to have approval from Rick and I to be in compliance with
what the Town Council is requesting, so that is why Rick and I are going
out there a lot to check on things.
Bruce Frey- What is all going to have to be done by the
September 10th deadline?† I
would like to also ask that you keep this on your agenda, under your
supervision, so you can look back and compare what has happened in the last 30
days.† As of today, they are suppose to
be taking care of the drainage problem, and today I now have these 10 foot long
sections of plastic pipe that are sticking out of the back of my condo.† My condo looks like a concession trailer at
the state fair and that wonít be an acceptable solution to whatever the
drainage problem is going to be back there.†
The rip rap has plastic under it, I donít know if anything will be done
with that.† There is plastic pipe that
needs to be buried, instead of sticking off the back of my house.
Coppock- They all
come off the down spouts we wanted them to take them out and over the hill and
toward the bottom to keep it from washing off the top.† The normal specification of rip rap was
discussed.† In the plans, there wasnít
any specifications on the cover underneath the rip rap.†
Bruce Frey- So, it is my understanding that the pipe and the
black plastic are a temporary thing?
isnít anything else to go in there, you can shorten it up in time once it gets
established and stable.† You can take
them off as you see fit.
Bruce Frey- Please keep your eye on this until it is all over,
and thank you.
Nierzwicki- I donít
know if they are going to ask for an extension or not, because talking to
Bearacos on site, they may get it done by the 10th, depending on the
weather, but obviously this is something Town Council will have to address and how they feel.†
Phillip Smith- Discussed the grass issues at Autumn Ridge and the
church lot next to the fire station needing to be cut.
Coppock- The grass
is taking on some growth in the pit, but you are talking about the other
vegetation in the area.
Sandra Hash- At the last Town Council meeting you said you had been out on enforcement
patrol and have the letters gone out from that patrol.
Connie Griffin- No.† I hope to
get started on that next week, but Iím gone for two and a half days to
conference.† Hopefully I can get started
over the next two weeks, but unfortunately when you have a time delay between
the inspection and the letters it is hard, because someone can mow in that time
frame.† Iíve added a disclaimer to the
letter if you have cut your yard, please disregard this notice.
been asked to discuss the grants that we have open at this point.† He read from a worksheet from the packet.
The I-69 grant just got started this month; it will
run until March 2010.† Weíve started work
on this already; it is a $50,000 grant.†
Iíve been working with Sandy on the set up.
The MPO grants are ongoing, which includes traffic and
pavement management, which is $3200 each.
We have a sidewalk grant, which is with RBBSC.† Weíve been trying to figure out if we can do
some of this work in house to extend the sidewalk.† After discussion, we need a request for
proposal, to get bids, and that will be going out on September 15, 2008.† We had a
meeting with Smithville Telephone and others.†
They all want to have something done with the sidewalks as soon as
possible.† We should have something
coming back in October 2008 on that so we can proceed.
Sandra Hash- Will the town be putting out the proposal or the
doing it for the school.
Sandra Hash- The payments will all be done through the school?
Nierzwicki- This is
a 100%, thereís no cost except for time, $250,000.† This is a complicated project.† Weíve been trying to build up some steam on
this.† The issue is we need to look at
designing the cross section of Sale and Reeves.† We
have the money for the sidewalk, there are issues on drainage, curb and gutter,
and we may want to do a street rehab in that area.† It may be advantageous for the Town to do a
design for a whole cross section for that area.
A capital improvement plan will also be conducted.
We have the heritage downtown trail.† $169,000.†
Rick and I talked with INDOT on the 20th, when they were
here.† The one issue we are looking at is
trying to move this money around is to have two pedestrian bridges built and
find internal funding for the trail bed.
The Sycamore Drive extension was discussed.† The cost is estimated at $750,000.
INDOT said we would have to go thru the city of Bloomington MPO for funding, or we could try to get a congressional
earmark for this.† This isnít a grant,
but I went ahead and put it in.†
Is this what you wanted to see Dan?
Dan Swafford- Yes, and what you are doing and what is going on
with this, I think I brought this up at Town Council.
Nierzwicki- Yes, It
will be included.
Sandra Hash- The request for proposal if there are so many
questions about the sidewalks at this time, how are we going to request
proposals on the 15th.
Nierzwicki- We have
the linear footage that we want and we know where they are going to be
located.† Iím getting pushed by the
school corporation.† They would like to
have the sidewalks in.† It will take at
least one construction season to do that and the longer we wait for the bids
the longer it will be.† Obviously, we
will have public meetings too.
Sandra Hash- The school will handle all of the payment process.
no payment.† There is 250,000.
Sandra Hash- And they will pay all of your expenses and invoices.
Frank Nierzwicki- Yes.
Sandra Hash- So why arenít they getting the request for
Because, they are making us do it, because they donít want to do the work.†
Dan Swafford- This is all of the grants we have going right now.
Frank Nierzwicki- Yes. $475,000.
Dan Swafford- Nothing has spent out of any of these grant monies?
Iíve rung up some hours on the I-69 grant.†
Dan Swafford- Can you break that down, when you bring that to
council?† How much was the original start
up amount was and what has beenused.† I
want this ongoing.† I want to see where
everything is now not in the future.
Sandra Hash- Can you do this when we are ready to get a
Nierzwicki-Yes.† I can submit a monthly report to council.
Dan Swafford- The Heritage Trail grant the unknowns here?† Why are they not known?
Sandra Hash- How long ago was it Rick that you applied for this
grant?† It was the late 90ís wasnít it?
Sandra Hash- It has been hanging out there a long, long time.† It requires some matching money.
Dan Swafford- I just want to make sure we donít miss out on these
Nierzwicki- We have
to have $212,000 to get the $169,000.† An
Coppock- We would
like to build a pedestrian bridge by Town Hall to get to the trail bed.
discussed the Heritage Trail design, and ideas that are being discussed.† The more people get interested the more
movement will happen.
Coppock- The previous
Town Council didnít want to build it.† So, the project has stalled for at least 4
discussed trail improvements of the county, green way projects.† I would caution that we donít apply for anymore
grants until we finish out some of the ones we have started.
Dan Swafford- Which is my whole point on this, letís use them or
Nierzwicki- Once we
complete the first section, then we could go after more money.† Iíll do a monthly report if this is what you
want, Iíll do that.
Russ Ryle- Back to the side walk grants.† I think it is wonderful to have
sidewalks.† I would like to remind
everyone, that the deeds the right of way along Reeves Road from Thomas to Sycamore, calls for 2, 8 foot wagon
lanes.† This is based in the 1840ís
original survey of MonroeCounty.† There is no
real estate for three foot of your existing pavement on our deeds, let alone
space for a sidewalk.†
Sandra Hash- But, being the loving citizen that you are you would
gladly donate a part of your property for a sidewalk Russ.
Russ Ryle- Let me put it this way, to go to the Thorough Fair
Design plan with proper spacing for sidewalk, your sidewalk would be closer to
my front deck, if you widened Reeves Road to its design specification.†
Sandra Hash- We certainly canít start buying properties out.†
Russ Ryle- What Iím saying, I would love to be generous, and
the appraisal price is being depleted yearly because of the zoning lapses and
the problems behind me.† Iíve been told
by a real estate agent that my appraisal has been reduced 1/3 because of the
mess on Mustang
Drive.† Of which this commission, previous
commissions and Town
Council have done very
The first thing you need, especially with the trail
project, is to do a complete study of the whole project.† Just because you have a grant to lay x feet
of sidewalk the last thing you need to do right now is to put an RFP out and
get a contractor fired up to lay sidewalk.†
The first thing you need to do is an engineering study and your land surveys
and understand where you first need your right of ways.† There is no way you could put sidewalks on
either side of Reeves
significant land purchases.† So, please
donít start RFP contracts to lay concrete when you donít have the land to put
Sandra Hash- Where are the starting points on the sidewalks?
is money built into the contract for right of way acquisition.† It goes basically from the school at Sycamore
and Louden to about the Pines, where it ends.†
There is another section by Area 10 on Aging where that goes into the
Junior High.† The subdivision back behind
the school would have sidewalks to 46.†
So, there is a lot of linear footage to go in.
Russ Ryle- Ok.† From last
school year, on my side of Reeves Road, between Edgewood Drive, and Thomas, there is about 18 properties, there was
4 school age children at these properties.†
If you go on the South side of Reeves Road you have School view Apartments, and you have 30
residential properties, Raubís Lane Apartments and dozens of kids of all ages.† The kids would have to jay walk to get to the
issue on this is one day to have sidewalks on both sides of the street.† I think the issue on this, is the exact
location of this, would have to come out of a design which is in the process in
the money for the sidewalks and we would also have a public hearing on the
sidewalks, and then weíll have to make a decision about where we want to put
Russ Ryle- You need to go through this process, before you
Nierzwicki- I could delay the RFP.
Sandra Hash- Are you initiating the RFP?
Russ Ryle- Where you authorized to issue an RFP?
Russ Ryle- By who?
Russ Ryle- Ok, has the zoning or the Town Council issued you authorization to issue an RFP?
first of all an RFP, is a request to select a consultant, then you go from
there working on the price.†
Russ Ryle- Pardon me.
Nierzwicki- I think
the issue on this is that if we delay the RFP process, which is fine, we could
do that, I need to have Town
Council or Plan Commission authorize something else, we canít pause for nothing.
Sandra Hash- I think you should bring it before council to ask
for permission, but the council should know you are going to do it.††
the issue on this isÖÖ
Coppock- The school
is getting tired of holding onto the money for you.†††
Dan Swafford- Which has provoked this whole thing, because thatís
what Iíve heard too.
Sandra Hash- Is Frank authorized to do that?
Russ Ryle- No, in my humble opinion, not without council
Sandra Hash- Which we have a council meeting Monday night.† So, you can ask for approval then.
Nierzwicki- But the
issue on this is if it doesnít go thru my office it doesnít happen, thatís what
the issue is that has been floating around on this.† We are partners with RBBSC.†† Iíll ask Monday night.†
Russ Ryle- Russ discussed the poor drainage and the concerns of
Sandra Hash- I would say that would be part of the project.† As long as INDOT is involved that is the
procedure theyíll follow.
†Frank Nierzwicki- You talk about
grants, Dan, there is another one we could go after, and we didnít go after it
this year and maybe we want to go after it next year, a 319 Grant from the
state for storm water, it is a 60/40 match.†
Reeves Road may be the project, so this is something we could talk
about.† The other match could be storm
water fees that we could collect.
Dan Swafford- I know Jim Ragle is concerned with some of the big storm water
projects coming up, so I would be interested in talking to you about that.†
Sandra Hash- Who says what storm water projects need to be
done?† Do you have a plan Rick on what
storm water projects need to be done?
Coppock- No.† Storm water projects come from
complaints.† Weíve never had any money to
do any projects.†
Dan Swafford- Thatís what Jim is saying.† Jim has seen several things he would like to
capital improvement plan will spell this out in 2009.
Sandra Hash- Can we get a consultant to help us with that out of
the I-69 grant?
Nierzwicki- We are
Sandra Hash- Are we qualified?†
Nierzwicki- Some of
these things are out there, but they arenít in the same spot.†
Terry Baker- You just need to pull it all together.
Sandra Hash entertained a motion to adjourn.† Dan Swafford made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Phillip Smith.† All in favor
motioned carried.† Meeting adjourned at †Next meeting
will be October 2, 2008.