Ellettsville, Indiana Plan
Commission met in
regular session on Thursday, October 2, 2008 in the Fire Department Training and Conference Room
located at 5080
West State Road
46.† Sandra Hash called the meeting to
order at and lead the Pledge of
Roll Call:†† Members
present were:†Sandra Hash, President; Terry Baker, Vice
President; Dan Swafford, Don Calvert, Phillip Smith, and Frank Buczolich.† Frank Nierzwicki, Director of Planning Services, Micah Austin and Connie Griffin
were present.† Willis Ziese was absent.
Approval of the Minutes
Sandra Hash- entertained amotion
to approve the minutes from September 4, 2008. Dan
Swafford made a motion
to approve the minutes, Phillip
Smith seconded the
motion.† All in favor motion carried.
Sandra Hash- Willis Ziese has resigned from the Plan Commission.† Sandra read
his letter of resignation.† Willis
resigned because he felt a conflict of interest existed.† His letter stated that having the contracted
Town Engineer (Rick
Coppock) from Bynum
Fanyo, Bloomington, representing the Development Group Network
Inc/Centennial Park was a conflict of interest.
Request for rezoning at 4210 West SR 46-
Matt Cascio Petitioner
Cascio was not present, nor did he request anyone to speak on his behalf.† Matt Cascio has not met or talked with the
Planning Department to discuss the rezoning request or the questions concerning
the rezone.† Several inconsistencies
exist that need to be researched.† Connie Griffin worked on this today as well as Sandra Hash.
provided a zoning ordinance dated August 11, 2003, which stated three parcels
were zoned R-3 and three other parcels were zoned C-3.
CountyPlat† #8 Ė† 00700590-00†
C-3††††††††††††† CountyPlat #146 Ė 007-29380-00 R-3
CountyPlat #31 Ė 007-00790-00 C-3†††††††††††† CountyPlat #147 Ė 007-29380-02 R-3
CountyPlat #91 Ė 007-29380-01 C-3†††††††††††† CountyPlat #148 Ė 007-29380-03 R-3
few minutes prior to the Plan
Sandra provided new updated information.†
The information that Sandra compiled makes her believe that the parcels
in question for rezone are the parcels located along SR 46, where as the
parcels that I thought may be in question are located more in the interior of
Cedar Bluff Gardens.
believe more research is needed to determine the correct zoning.† I suggest we table the Cascio request to zone
until more research and clarification can be obtained.
Request to have a 40 foot tower erected
at 5858 West SR 46, David Keister petitioner-
Nierzwicki- I made a
mistake in the zoning at 5858 West SR 46.†
I gave the real estate broker the wrong zone.† I stated it was a C-3 zone and it is an R-1
zone.† We are finding a number of parcels
along SR 46 in question, and additional research will be needed to confirm the
have the option to approve the antenna based on the assumption that the zoning
change to C-3 would be approved.†
Planning Department will work with you on this issue and we apologize for the
mistake and will make all efforts to confirm the correct zoning.† We will work with the Town Engineer and try
to eliminate this issue from happening in the future.
been trying to do this for a couple of months, and they are trying to do some
closing to move the process along.† My
interpretation on this, if you feel the tower is going to be fine and that the
operation of the business is fine, but you have an issue with the zoning, you
could approve tonight, pending zoning change, that this operation would be acceptable
at this location.† Weíve had a variance,
and have had a public hearing on this.†
If this will help?
Dave Keister- He stated that he realizes we are trying to
accommodate them.† He was surprised that it
took so much to get a 40í tower approved.†
It took about a month and a half to get in front of the BZA.† Our office in Spencer was flooded and we need
to move.† I understood the zoning
commercially was fine; the thing we had to do was get the 40í tower antenna,
which we did.† We met with Frank and have
gone over the other issues, and if we canít get approval we are going to have
to, I think weíve been very patient.† I
was told we could come tonight and put this to rest.† Iím asking that we can do this, because we
need to move forward.† He expressed his
disappointment and said he had paid his fees, and patiently waited to go before
the BZA and was upset at the fact it isnít ready to be passed this
Dan Swafford- When this went in front of the BZA they did not know
it was an R-1.
Nierzwicki- It went
as a C-3.
Dan Swafford- Iím afraid we are going to get in trouble.† They didnít even know the correct
proper zoning on this, I mentioned options that you could pursue, and it is up
to you as to how you want to handle this.†
One option- We would have to have a public notice to have a hearing on
this we have to have 10 days notice, and contact four adjacent property
owners.† You could wait a month and do
this on November 6 or call a special meeting, given the needed time for a
public notice.† Or you could tonight, do
a conditional approval depending on zoning.†
I donít know if we are going to be able to do that from what Iím
hearing.† Would a special meeting in two weeks
Sandra Hash- Rick
Coppock called my
office early last week and he was conducting some research.† He was looking at the zoning on this
property.† I looked through old
ordinances and minutes for a couple of days.†
He today, said it was R-1, because he found the preliminary plat for
is a wood working shop next to it, was that an R-1 also?
Sandra Hash- Yes, which is not right either.
No.† This is not the only situation we
Sandra Hash- What is allowed in a residential zone?† I donít have my code booklet.
Nierzwicki- This is
a business operation.†
Terry Baker- Would having a meeting in two weeks be alright with
you, with WCLS?
Juan Carlos (Century 21 Broker) Ė I represent both buyer and seller.† I listed this property about a year to 15
months ago.† I checked with Planning,
everything, is a C-3.† The only residential
component of the plat was in the back where there is a house and the other is
commercial.† This is the first Iíve heard
of this zoning problem, 10 minutes before.†
All indications are it is a C-3.†
Juan expressed his disappointment for the seller and the buyer.† He questioned zoning confirmation along all
of SR 46.†
Sandra Hash- On the zoning map itself it is clearly not marked
C-3, so I donít know how you were informed it was C-3.†
Dan Swafford- Did the owner tell you it was C-3?
Nierzwicki- It was
listed as C-3 and in looking back it is R-1; Iíve been working with Rick to
also get the status of a subdivision.
Sandra Hash- I remember this was subdivided when the son wanted
to build a home behind his dadís business.†
this process we have found Chicago Pizza is also listed as R-1.† With the package liquor store and the parcel behind
that.† My concern in this situation, the
zoning map should be official; we should have documents backing this up with
ordinances and minutes.† Some of this is
lacking and unclear.† We also have the
Cascio property as well.† So, yes I did
mention it was a C-3, which was a mistake at the time.†
Don Calvert- My own personal feeling on this, these gentleman
were inadvertently informed, and I personally feel we should go ahead with this
based on changing this to C-3.† As we
look at the location on that, it all becoming C-3, and the value is a C-3.† You were victimized by us, unfortunately, it
was misrepresented.† We should go ahead
with the stipulation that it is converted to a C-3.† I donít think anyone here is against this.
Sandra Hash- Weíre punishing them for our error.† To make it right it will take an ordinance
and a couple of readings.†
Smith- It only
takes one reading if everyone agrees, right?
Sandra Hash- Yes, if you have a unanimous agreement, at the Council
you can pass it at one reading.†
Nierzwicki- I would
like to clean up a number of these issues that we found.
Smith- Do we have
the names of the surrounding property owners?
Smith- Why donít we
go ahead, get the names of the adjacent owners, and from the publication date,
we can call another Plan
published with the notice, and we can take care of it there.
Sandra Hash- And then it would have to go in front of the Town Council.†
Dan Swafford- I think we need to do go through the right
steps.† How can you approve something
through the BZA when they werenít informed the right way?
variance is correct.† The tower, by code,
can only be in an industrial or agricultural zone.† It still needs a variance.† The variance is still active because this
isnít an industrial or an agricultural zone, so that is fine.† The issue on this is an R-1 that should be a
Sandra Hash- I strongly agree we could approve the tower so they
can start working on the tower.†
Radio Engineer- This is what we are running into from an engineering
stand point.† There is concrete and we
donít want to order the tower until we have permission to build the thing.† It takes about 30 days to get the tower, and
then we get into weather conditions and then we could have problems with the
tower.† We are pushing the envelope here
or we are going to have to wait until spring.†
could have the tower, it could be approved tonight, do not approve the business
operation until it is rezoned.†
Sandra Hash- And we could have this completed by 30 days.†
Dave Keister- Iíve done everything, paid my money, time and effort
in good faith and this isnít right.†
Juan Carlos- They have to build and remodel in the studio, this
is going to take time.† Is there any way
we can have any assurance he can have his business there?†
Dan Swafford- I donít see how we can do this without
approval.† We are putting ourselves into
a legal mess by approving this ahead of time.
could approve the tower, I donít think that will be a problem.† The issue is going ahead and remodeling the
Sandra Hash- A remodel will require a building permit.† And will the Building Department not inquire
about the zoning.
Nierzwicki-†† The Building Department will do the process;
it can take a couple of weeks.† I am
looking at options to make this work.† I
understand we can not guarantee this will happen.† It is the mechanics we have to go through.
Juan Carlos- Can the zoning be approved, subject to the
confirmation, at the Council meeting?†
asking to have this, pending final approval.†
Juan Carlos-† From the Council?
†Not another planning meeting?† What Iím hearing is I have to come again to
the same meeting and then go to council.
Sandra Hash- Indiana
Code dictates this procedure.† She
explained the proper procedure; have a first reading and then take it to Town Council for approval.
Juan Carlos- Asked about the soonest date this can be done.
Dan Swafford- Why canít we do the rezoning and this approval in
the same meeting?
explained the options.† First, wait until
the special meeting, they have a request before you on having a tower erected
and that is legal.† As the owner they
could start on the remodel, as long as the business doesnít take place in that
Dan Swafford- Frank, you had better watch what you are saying,
because you are insinuating they can go ahead, start and then get shot down.
Nierzwicki- The whole
issue on this is anyone can remodel any facility they want to before a zoning
change has to be approved. The issue we are looking at would obviously have to
be rezoned and go through special committee to do that.†
Sandra Hash- After reviewing a calendar, taking into
consideration the hearing notice publication in The Journal and the notification
to adjacent property owners, a special Plan Commission meeting could be scheduled.† The petitioner doesnít have to wait for the
November 6th meeting.
apologized for the mistake and instructed the petitioner the rezone fee will be
waived.† The Planning Department will
publish the hearing notice in The Journal, as well as contact adjacent owners
at our expense.
Dave Keister- Stated he will re-evaluate the purchase based on the
Nierzwicki- If the
homeowner can produce documents showing the home is located in a commercial
zone; we could approve the tower this evening complete the deal.† If they canít locate the any zoning documents
then it will have to come before the commission for a zoning change.† We could approve of the antenna tower this
Sandra Hash- Do I have a motion.
Buczolich-I make a
motion to approve of the 40í antenna based on verification of the commercial
Terry Baker- I second the motion.
Sandra Hash- Connie took a roll call on the vote.
Griffin roll call
vote:† †Don Calvert- yes; Terry Baker- yes; Sandra
Hash- yes; Dan Swafford- no; Phillip Smith-
yes; Frank Buczolich- yes.
Sandra Hash- Motion carries 5-1.
Russ Ryle- What is a starting point for saying a given piece of
property in Ellettsville has the following zoning.† Iím puzzled where you are going to start
giving the complete detailed records from previous years.† We have some PUD issues, verbal agreements
not honored, good faith, the problem is not theirs, they are due
diligence.† I have a question for Frank,
apparently the original determination when your BZA material was set up it was
commercial and on that basis you went through the BZA process.† Frank, did you tell them it was commercial or
did everyone assume it was commercial.†
Nierzwicki- We did
some research on that from looking at the zoning issues on this.
Russ Ryle- Ok, what document did you rely on to proceed it was
a commercial property?
looked at the zoning map.
Russ Ryle- Sandy you said on the zoning map it was residential.
Sandy Hash- I looked at the zoning map today, and there is no
marking on those lots.
Russ Ryle- It is unmarked.
Sandy Hash- When it is unmarked it is residential, R-1.† The lot beside it was C-3, Apathyís
Russ Ryle- If it is unmarked it is R-1.†
Sandy Hash- It is on the legend on the map.† Yes, and we adopted the map. That is another
issue with the commercial zones.
Russ Ryle- When was the map originally adopted?
Sandy Hash- I have to look, I donít have that information.
Nierzwicki- I donít
Russ Ryle- Was it ever adopted?†
Nierzwicki- We need
to move on.
Dan Swafford- I would like to say, I bought a piece of property in
that area and I had it surveyed.† Which
every buyer has to have done.† We didnít
go to Frank; we went to the court house.†
That is where we found out what the zoning was.† Iím confused why the realtor didnít look up
the actual zoning.
Russ Ryle- If the Planning office is at variance with the court
house which rules.
Plan Commission- Court House.†
Nierzwicki- If it
is in conflict you would have to look at what is in conflict.† Was it recorded in error?† Just because it has been passed at PC or TC
doesnít mean the map is entered correctly.
Sandy Hash- I send the zoning to secretary of state, the state
census bureau, recorded, voters registration, clerk of the circuit court,
Bloomington, and Monroe Countyís GIS, to MC Planning Dept. to the Ellettsville Fire Station, Rick Coppock, put in the census file, I keep one for local roads
and streets for taxation, and then I file them periodically, then I get it in
our code update file.† In the back of code
booklet there are parallel references.† That
lists all annexations and all zoning information.
Russ Ryle- Then it is my understanding there is no zoning in
the legal description.†
makes a difference in the tax base if it is commercial or residential.
Sandy Hash- Jay Richardson wanted to build a home behind his
fatherís shop.† They subdivided the
property.† The zoning is assigned at the
subdivision and then itís filed with the preliminary plat and that is what I
had a copy of.†
Dan Swafford- The property ownerís are the ones that subdivided
Nierzwicki- We look
at our zoning map and we also go to the countyGIS system.† We are
dealing with the information we are given.†
Some of the information is confusing.
Sandra Hash- Our zoning map lists lots and lot numbers.† Realtors call with an address, it is best to
have the lot numbers, because the addresses are not listed, and along the
highway there arenít lot numbers on the properties.†
Nierzwicki- On our
zoning map you have to look closely to get the right parcel, it is easy to get
the wrong one.† It would be nice to go to
my computer to a specific parcel and get the zoning information.
discussed the situation 30 years ago, and how she went before the Town Council and asked if it were zoned properly for the type of
business she wanted.† We didnít ask for
it in writing.
Sandra Hash- There are minutes, have you looked at the minutes?
Sowder- No, I
havenít looked at the minutes.† I will do
that when I have time.† She believes the
whole town has errors in its recordings.†
I think the town needs to recognize the errors and start acting
trying to have documentation on items.†
If you had documentation we would work with you.† It isnít a fault of anyone, what was done 20,
30 or 40 years ago was different than what we are doing now.† We are trying to create and maintain a database
on this.† We are trying to be fair and
equal and we are trying to streamline the process.
Sowder- I was told
to seek a rezoning and they knew when they told me to do it that they were
going to turn me down.† So, I went
through that process, and all they did was collect my money.†
Don Calvert- Who are they, do you remember who the board was
Sandra Hash- Do you remember who was on the board and the year?
Sowder- There were
five men were on the council, 1978.† The
minutes were not as detailed then.†
Dan Swafford- Did they tell you to close.
Darlyne Sowder- They grandfathered me in, I could keep operating,
but I couldnít sell my business as it is.
Frank Nierzwicki- This has caused us to look more closely at the zones
especially along SR 46.†
Smith- I make a
motion that we adjourn.
Terry Baker- Second.
Sandra Hash- All in favor say aye.†
Sandra Hash entertained a motion to adjourn.† Phillip Smith made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Terry Baker.† All in favor motioned carried.† Meeting adjourned at †Next meeting
will be November 6, 2008.